How Does The Thompson Vocal EliminatorTM Compare With The Vogone® Software Product?
I'm Lacy Thompson, Jr. and I am responsible for the development of my company's products and all of the claims we place on our web site. I stand behind those claims personally. I try to be on the conservative side of accurate. When I ran across the claims on the Vogone® site I was absolutely astonished ! And, I take the matter personally !
David Cox is the owner of MTU and presumably responsible for his web site's claims. I called MTU to discuss their claims and got their messaging system. David's wife returned the call and said she would have him call me personally.
I never heard from him.
The MTU - Vogone® site makes direct comparisons to our product which I find to be false and misleading. Some attempt to draw direct comparisons with our products indicating they perform equivalent or even better! I purchased their latest version 3.41 and found it to be inferior to products we were offering as early as 1978 in two critical aspects.
1) He fails to correct for time errors which are common on many stereo recordings and 2) He has no ability to edit seamlessly into and out of the elimination process allowing you to preserve critical instrumental solo and fill parts which would otherwise be eliminated along with the vocals. This is my 1978 technology we are talking about ! Our current technology uses two completely different methods of removing vocals both of which I have personally developed and refined without copying others. He hasn't even been able to successfully copy and come up to the level of the analog technology I was offering in 1978! Let alone the current VE4 !
If You Can't Out Perform Them ..... You Can Out Claim Them !
That he does In Spades! I try to be conservative with our claims. There is no perfect Vocal EliminatorTM, ours or anyone else's however there are very significant differences between our level of performance and copy cats like Vogone®. Personally I was astonished when I took a look at David's site. I personally wrote the copy for our web site and their web site looked like he attempted to take our web site and whatever we claimed..... one up it ! To give you a specific case in point.... We've been in business since 1976 and have specialized since our inception in vocal elimination. We have sold tens of thousands of Thompson Vocal Eliminators all over the world. We were without a doubt the first company to refine and mass market a Vocal EliminatorTM and I personally independently developed two completely different methods of removing vocals. For David Cox to apparently be attempting to take my place as the pioneer in this area is truly insulting!
From Their Web Site: "Vogone has evolved for over 42 years so you know its got to be different." Even though the first Vogone® product didn't ship until 1998! and MTU wasn't even formed until March 1977. He attempts to be aiming to create the impression that "The Best Vocal Remover" has been their "Passion" since 1968 in an apparent play to give the misleading impression that they predated our efforts by 8 years and this has been their area of focus! One would have to ask the very serious question of why they can't even successfully copy our 1978 technology? Read on..... the pattern continues.
So How Do They Actually Compare?
"Sweet Caroline" By Neal Diamond Vogone® VE4
"The Best Is Yet To Come" By Frank Sinatra Vogone® VE4
More Misleading or False Claims From Vogone® Site
Claims To Be "First" To Adjust For Non Center Panned Vocals - April 2006 "including FIRST product to remove non-center-panned vocals" This claim is False. Our very first product compensated for non center vocals - that was 1976 30 ! Years Prior ! We've been compensating for time errors between the two channels as well since 1978 and to my knowledge no one has realized how critical this is including Vogone®. It's the reason the "Sweet Caroline" example above eliminates so much better than the Vogone® result. Link
Gives Impression Vogone® Improves Upon Original Quality - This is grossly misleading. "What is also quite remarkable is just how good the remaining instrumental backing is compared to the original!! When I switch between the original track and the Vogone processed track, the Vogoned track has SO MUCH MORE LIFE & PRESENCE than the very flat sounding original!! " Link
Yes I know it's a quote from a customer, and yes I have had similar comments from customers on our product who may have been listening to the processed version at a higher level than the original. I would never use such a comment on our site! The reality is that it is a battle to minimize the losses of quality which can be substantial, even with our product which does a far better job than the Vogone® of minimizing the losses. To give the impression that the opposite! is the case is grossly misleading ! The Vogone® software actually increases the volume on the processed version about 6 dB over the original which can fool some people into perceiving a higher quality level when in fact the actual quality is reduced when the level is corrected.
Claims To Preserve The Stereo Content
Listen to the comparisons above. At best I feel the Vogone® product preserves 5 to 10% of the original stereo at a significant cost of the vocal removal. I would say we preserve about 80% of the stereo content. It varies from preserving 100% when we can automatically detect the vocal is not present and disengage the processing completely (and seamlessly) to maybe 20% when the processing is actively engaged to the maximum. For example in the above examples, we are not manually editing the result. The stereo content you clearly hear is the VE4's automatic vocal detection doing the work and computing the depth and width and center frequency coefficients over 300 times a second to maximize the amount of stereo content we can keep while still eliminating the vocal. Again this claim appears to be little more than an attempt to "one up the Claim" while falling far short of our performance level.
Attempts To Give The Impression They Produce Better Results We Do. This is False.
A customer with a VE3+ evidently failed to get the unit to perform up to it's capabilities. The customer should have gotten a significantly better result than he achieved with the Vogone® product. The only way one could fail to get superior results from even our products going back to 1978 (Model D-2) would be ; 1) The unit was not hooked up and operated properly or 2) There is something wrong with the unit. There is no indication in our records that the customer called the Help Line for assistance. We have attempted to make contact with the customer in question even locating his Face Book page and sending an email ( twice!) . He has not responded. Hopefully since he states on one post he still uses the unit for vocal enhancement, we will have the opportunity to find out exactly what is going on. Link
If David Cox can produce a single result to substantiate this claim - Post It ! Just As We Have Posted Links Showing Where We Clearly Out Perform His Product. Actually that's not quite accurate. It's not his product it's his woefully inadequate attempt at imitating our 1978 technology while claiming he surpasses our current techology.
Lacy Thompson, Jr.
PS: We sent a copy of a link to this page to David Cox (Vogone® ) the day this page was posted. If there are updates we feel relevant we will update this page.
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